PANEL DISCUSSION

Dr Steve Best will be joined in a panel discussion by a trans-disciplinary team of speakers, including Dale McKinley (Anti-Privatisation Forum), Bobby Peek (Groundwork), Michele Pickover (Animal Rights Africa), Tristen Taylor (Earthlife Africa), Saliem Fakir (Centre for Renewable & Sustainable Energy Studies, Stellenbosch University and past Director of the IUCN-SA), a representative from People Opposing Women Abuse (POWA) and a representative of the Zabalaza Anarchist Communist Front.

This discussion, facilitated by Andre Croucamp, will seek to trace the common causes of oppression and explore the socio-economic factors which connect different forms of oppression. The goal is to open a conversation on rethinking liberation struggles - to connect the common struggles of humans, animals and the environment in an attempt to integrate different advocacy programmes and practical interventions into one struggle. The questions posed will not only be 'what should we think?' but also 'what can we do?'

PANEL DISCUSSION – PROCEEDINGS

Saliem Fakir:
How do we link human rights and animal rights in practical ways? The history of violence in South Africa also witnessed the extermination of both human beings and animals on the country’s frontiers. One just needs to refer to the autobiographies of the early explorers and hunters on the continent. For example, Martin Meredith in his book talks about gold mining and how the expansion of the economy meant the death of many animals. The Anglo-Boer War resulted in the scorched earth policy. This meant that military leaders like Kitchener ordered the death of the boers and their animals. Therefore there exists a parallel history of injustice in this country – humans and animals. My work and research has identified and concentrated to a large degree on drawing these parallels.

Dale McKinley:
For me, the two activisms are quite separate still and there are bridges to cross in order to draw them together. Theoretically there are parallels but in terms of practical hierarchy one needs to prioritize the causes. In a practical context, we are confronted by the West versus Third World issues and animal priorities would feature perhaps in twenty percent of instances.

In terms of classical Marxism, the class analysis affects people on the ground. The battle of the middle class versus the lower class. There is an urgent need and urgency to reduce the imbalance and one needs to prioritise and serve counter examples to teach ordinary people the theory.

For example, in Cuba, North Korea, the people have suffered from the USSR’s demise. Cuba shared common suffering to all.

In terms of the sustainability list, people and animals well beings are both in dire straits. A strong hand is required to force equality for all.

David Bilchitz:
Traditionally we understand that animals have a lesser status in society. Philosophically we understand critical theory in basic structure and human interests feature above animal interests. However, what falls within our moral scope? In terms of the South African Constitution, we didn’t take the argument far enough to address repeating the mistakes of the past.

We relate to the equality clause in terms of species. We need to create a law to move within the law, to be inclusive in the law. Environmental inclusion is an attempt to forget about the indiscriminated animal, and sustainability includes welfare, but not the resources and exploitation.

How these things practically play out in organizations such as CARE, Rita Majita’s work with the baboons.

The need to recognize that animals have interests.

Justin (no bio?):
Animal rights have a direct link to the economic defeat of capitalism and the institutional systems of hierarchy. Often talk about the environment and the link between social justice and animals as part of the environment. However there is a distinct disadvantage for animals by humans.

Aristotle critically different ability for rationale thought. Humans are the only species capable of destroying and ensuing. Better for human perfection in the end. Aiming for in the end, but not through the same methods how carbon economy. Systematic social justice campaign. Refugees will suffer the most.

Phuma Mtwetwa:
Class and identity interlinkages pose huge challenges. Ignore identities. The oppression and power domination have to do with domination. For women and lesbians the issues of divorce identity and class even if you ignore class, priority, food sovereignty and chemical enhancement supposed to benefit. Trying to interlink identities between food and lesbian sovereignty. In every progressive social movement, there are issues of identity and linkages. We can interswap issues, and ARA to worry about.

Jonathan Payn:
Anarchist Front, prioritizing is necessary. Where the struggles converge. Food priorities and capitalism industrial leader to massive degradation of food and water. Where the struggles can converge. Seemingly, animal rights are the esoteric conversations of the middle upper class.

The struggle for oppression is the overturning capitalism and democratic control. Destroy hierarchy. The ultimate goal.

Nonhlanla Mkwenya:
POWA prioritises the rights of women. How do we begin to change the constitution for women, we have to prioritise. Then we can respect one another. Females and males. We have the right to live in a violence free society. Proriortising that once we’ve addressed rights of women and the animals.

Tristen Taylor:
Instrinsic value with regards to nature. The broader debate to link the struggles is to understand environmental justice. Groundwork is about empowered people in systems of positive relations in the environment. Understanding the needs of people in the township.

Saliem Fakir:
There’s a false divide around the question of consciousness. You can’t engage class consciousness and false consciousness. You need to resolve the issue of violence which is exclusive. The conception and awareness of violence particularly in South Africa and our history of human rights. We need to now extend the issue of violence to the animals, no longer just the humans.

Dale McKinley:
A false dichotomy exists between conceptualization and practical implementation of these issues. One can conceptualise social consciousness but to practically implement the struggle is problematic. We don’t fundamentally disagree on the concept of the struggle but to practically roll this out is the challenge. It’s not what to think, but what to do.

Michele Pickover:
The way to view is holistic in terms of social justice – the bigger picture. The challenge for everyone is to work out the practical implementation of it all.

Comment from the floor:
We’re only human. The point would be that tolerance would be the first strike for the movement and against animal abuse. We also need to be trained on the legal system in these matters. The human animal abuse debate is how these things intersect. It has been shown that at least 70% of human violence has been preceded at some point by elements of animal abuse.

Steve Best:
Violence is at the core of our society. It’s the old dichotomy – a zero sum game. One example is the wildlife tourism where animals are treated as commodities. We need to fundamentally change as people and rectify factual mistakes. We need to fundamentally change our mindsets. The ultimate question of how does one prioritise suffering.

Steve Smit:
I have problems with and don’t understand the fundamental principles of social justice systems. You cannot apply different principles to humans or animals or women or blacks. One cannot outweigh the other. Aristotle’s argument of dualism doesn’t work and to say that animals aren’t rational minded.

Comment from the floor:
But aren’t we being elitist by being here?

Comment from the floor:
I have a question for David Bilchick. South African law doesn’t address animal rights at all. How do we go about changing the law? Take for example the people in Cosmos City and don’t forget the people in the informal settlements. We must create the opportunity for them to get involved and play a role.

We need to approach exploitation in a holistic manner. People talk about these issues in silos. Like worker’s rights versus environmental rights. It’s not an either or approach. We need to talk about a more sustainable developmental approach. We shouldn’t divide the debates but the different groups should all move together to change government.

Comment from the floor:
My name is Victor and I’m an African man. There’s even elitism at Wits I see. The indigenous people of Africa are meat eating people. We lived in harmonization with nature. We’re still fighting for our land – the land that belongs to the indigenous people of this country. You want to prioritise vantage points? But people are suffering. It’s a question of morality. It’s still the ‘us’ and ‘them’. Where do you draw the line here? This language is not the language of the masses. You need to come to the herd and understand the plight of the masses.

Comment from the floor:
My name is Aregon. For me, it’s all about how we prioritize things. The challenge is to change our thinking and I think we have an opportunity to do so.

Phumi Mtetwa:
It’s about respecting cultural norms. It’s the type of language we use. It should be the voice of respect and tolerance. We have a mutual responsibility to work together as part of a collective struggle. What can each of us do? It’s impossible to think about values. In South Africa we need to affect change through the law. The transformation of society can be achieved through multiple strategies. We can challenge ourselves. We cannot do what we don’t want done to us.

Tristen Taylor:
Let’s not think about concepts of elitism for animal rights. I think let’s get down to a practical level. David Bilchitz:
In South Africa people focus on the law. But which comes first, social transformation or the law? Animal interests need to be included in the law. You have to extend animal welfare to animal rights. It’s a process of legal reform. The courts need throw it back to parliament. And about identity: what is African, what isn’t African? This needs to spur us to take measures to take the movement forward. To educate people about exploitation. It’s about bringing consciousness about the worst excesses of it. The welfarist movement needs to take us to animal liberation as the ultimate goal.

Jonathan Payn:
The wrong emphasis is placed on the law where rights only exist on paper. We rely heavily on the law but we need to have an entire systematical standard approach in tackling the root cause of violence.

Nonhlanla Mkwenya:
If its animal or human rights, it makes no difference. Just because it’s white people – we need to stand together whites and blacks in solidarity.

Dale McKinley:
Taking the moral high ground doesn’t get you anywhere. In the absence of universal veganism, we have to prioritise and be practical. Don’t talk about the past but let’s rather appeal to end on a positive note.

Steve Best:
We need to become holistic thinkers. You’re right, it is problematic to change our traditions. But we’re all going to have to gradually learn to eat less meat and subsequently start gaining a respect for ALL life.

Saliem Fakir:
This has been an interesting debate focusing on moral consciousness. We can’t stop the debate though – the ethic and basis for our economy is a form of violence. The moral argument and question is where it actually starts.

Comment from the floor:
I’d like to know why we don’t have our own Green Party in South Africa?

Comment from the floor:
I recently read Colin Mason’s ‘A Short History of the Future’. In it he explains the relationship between violence, power and greed. It’s all about consumption and excess. Worldwide we accept consumption is a problem. We can’t however solve the problem if it keeps growing. We have to lay the groundwork for equity and sharing of wealth; eco-equity if you like.

Comment from the floor:
I represent the organization Ceasefire. We need to accept that we are unique individuals and respect each other’s backgrounds. We need to understand each other and take what is good from one another. I am a proud black man who’s culture says I need to slaughter a cow. This is a problem in this forum. We need to have tolerance for our cultural differences both sides.

Jonathan Payn:
I would just like to say that having a Green Party in South Africa will not help the situation. Democracy doesn’t happen on the ground and by being represented by a very small minority in parliament doesn’t help at all.

To close, all were thanked for their participation and frank and open discussion.